C-Body DryDock: Forums / General Tech / A couple Torsion bar questions, need some help.

Forums

C-Body DryDock -> Forums -> General Tech

<< Previous thread | Next thread >>

A couple Torsion bar questions, need some help.

Go to page -1-2-3 Next

Author

Post

NFURY8

Sat Jan 06 2007, 03:22AM

Super Mopar Dude

Location: Missouri
posts 3932

Jayme over at Just Suspensions and I have been chit chatting back and forth a while now about our C's and what kind of things are available and what can be done to them. T-Bars keep coming up, and in our last discussion we got into specs and size and years. I referenced the Tech Article on this site, but mentioned I didn't think it was 100% accurate. As we went through it a couple questions came up.

Please only respond if you have first hand knowledge or a documented Mopar reference.

1) Do all C's 65-78 (as listed in the Tech Article) use the same 1 3/8" hex on the torsion bars?

2) Do the 50" long Imperial bars have a 1 3/8" or 1 1/2" hex?

3) In 1974, when the Imps downsized to 47" bars, did the hex remain the same 1 3/8"?

4) Is there any documented proof that a 1.04" or 1.06" diameter bar was ever made 44" long?

5) Are 1965 & 1966 bars the same as the 1967 to 1973 bars on the same make? The article doesn't cover 65/66.

Please keep the responses factual and directly related to the topic. I will delete anything else.

[ Edited ]

Mike66Chryslers

Sat Jan 06 2007, 11:35AM

[ 426 Hemi CrossRam ]

Registered Member #561
Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 05:03PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
posts 1394

1) I believe so, but I can't speak for the 44" T-bars.
3) Yes, I have talked to others that have upgraded their earlier cars to 1.06 bars. I'm looking for a set myself.
5) I recall measuring the T-bars on my '66 Chrysler Windsor with my calipers and concluding they were .96" same as 1967+. My fender tag doesn't indicate that the car has HD suspension, so I assume that the HD bars in 1966 are also 0.98" as they are in 1967+.

[ Edited Sat Jan 06 2007, 10:37AM ]

Save the whales.... collect the whole set!

john66ny

Sat Jan 06 2007, 05:46PM

[ 400 4 brl ]

Registered Member #349
Joined: Mon Mar 20 2006, 03:42PM
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
posts 433

Torsion bar part numbers for '66 and '67 are the same at least for the Chyrsler application: 2269630/3369631.

John
'66 NY Sedan

If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?

sjak_brak

Sat Jan 06 2007, 08:22PM

[ 440 6 Pack ]

Registered Member #117
Joined: Wed Oct 12 2005, 12:14PM
Location: Antarctica
posts 755

Regarding 2:
- are these still on a 73 Imperial?

For all other related questions, I have parts manuals from 67 till 73, would you like a list of all t-bar parts numbers?
[ Edited Sat Jan 06 2007, 07:46PM ]

73 Imperial LeBaron 4 door
73 Imperial LeBaron 2 door (parts car)
71 Sport Fury

ex C: 67 Newport Custom Coupe

Clair Davis

Sun Jan 07 2007, 03:48PM

[ 440 6 Pack ]

Registered Member #5
Joined: Wed Oct 05 2005, 07:47PM
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
posts 676

I'll quote a couple PM's I sent back and forth with John Kunkle on Moparts.com and Moparchat.com:

"The hex ends are 1.41" and, depending on the year/application, the length varies from 44" to 50", the bar diameter varies from .940" to 1.060" and the offset angle between the ends varies from 40° to 44°."

"Since the bars seem to be painted by dipping in paint the actual hex end dimension will vary according to what's left of the paint thickness but the nominal dimension is 1.41".
The dimension info I have is from a 1971 factory service managers tech bulletin that was reprinted in one of the Mopar magazines."

John sent me a scan of that doc. I have reduced the size of the scan he sent me, and will upload it to my gallery shortly. Since this info had a profound effect on the cost of our super-secret C-body t-bar project, we did a field check of the hex spec. Chris Heiny, who'll be autoXing a '70 300, got out the digital calipers:

"Well, in all this messing around I uncovered the calipers ... so I measured a bunch of C-body T-bar hexes. They're all in the range 1.413"..1.416"."

1), 2), 3?) - Per this doc and real-world measurements, ALL C-barge hex sizes, up to 1971 for sure, used the same nomnial 1.41" hex dimension.

4) - This would be the Holy Grail of 44" t-bars. I don't think it exists, as the entire C-platform APPEARS to have gone to a 47" bar for the 1974 model year.

5) - Someone who knows the actual PN's for the 65-66 cars can verify, but it sure APPEARS that the same bars were used from 65-71. The Chrysler PN structure indicates that the bars were pretty early in development. FWIW, up to about 1971-72, PN's gave a rough approximation of what their model year was. For example, PN 2581233 would be for a 1965 model year car. The second digit, 5, was typically the second digit in the model year. 2984456 would be for a 69 model year part, 3051121 would be for a 70 model year, etc. Once you get in to the 70's, there were more than 100K parts added to stock, so the convention didn't work any more.

Clair

67 Barracuda Vert (440?/4-speed)
68 Sport Fury Vert (440/727 Factory Hot Rod)
69 Valiant Sedan (340/4-speed/EFI/SCCA-SM)
74 Dart Swinger (had a 440/727)
86 Shelby Charger (Still for sale)
87 Daytona Pacifica T2 (SOLD!!!)

NFURY8

Sun Jan 07 2007, 04:24PM

Super Mopar Dude

Location: Missouri
posts 3932

Sjak, I am under the impression that a 73 Imp still had 50" bars. Yes!! Please send me the list of numbers you have.

Clair, PLEASE send me that documentation on the 1.41 hex!!! You can email me as large a resolution as you have. My spare bars measued very close to 1.375 with my analog calipers. I think I will break down today and go get a digital pair or a real micrometer.

Clair Davis

Sun Jan 07 2007, 04:27PM

[ 440 6 Pack ]

Registered Member #5
Joined: Wed Oct 05 2005, 07:47PM
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
posts 676

OK, rather than put the file in the gallery, I'll FWD the email from JK to you directly. Nothing strange about copyright, etc. then...

Clair

D Cluley

Wed Jan 10 2007, 11:23PM

[ 440 6 Pack ]

Registered Member #70
Joined: Mon Oct 10 2005, 10:45PM
Location: Lansing MI
posts 447

I don't have any dimensional info, but thought the part numbers from the 1965 book might be useful.

2269 574 - Std Fury Station Wagon (all engines)
2269 576 - Std Fury with 6cyl (except Station Wagon)
2269 578 - Std Fury with 8cyl (except Station Wagon) & Heavy Duty Fury (not sure if this is HD for Wagons or just 6cyl cars?)

2269 618 - Std Dodge without Air Conditioning
2269 620 - Std Dodge with A/C & Std Chryslers wihout A/C
2269 622 - HD Dodge & HD Chrysler/ Chrysler with A/C

Those are the right side numbers, with each left side number being one digit higher

Dan Cluley
1965 300 Convertible
1974 Dart Sedan

Clair Davis

Thu Jan 11 2007, 03:18PM

[ 440 6 Pack ]

Registered Member #5
Joined: Wed Oct 05 2005, 07:47PM
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
posts 676

OK, I'll try to paste the info from the JPG, including the info above:

"
65-73 Plymouth C-body
PN............side....length (in)...dia (in)...hex (in)...preset (deg)
2269574...right......44”...........0.940......1.410........40*
2269575...left........44”...........0.940......1.410........40*
2269576...right......44”...........0.960......1.410........40*
2269577...left........44”...........0.960......1.410........40*
2269578...right......44”...........0.980......1.410........40*
2269579...left........44”...........0.980......1.410........40*

65-78 Dodge, 74-78 Plymouth, Chrysler/Imperial C-body
PN............side....length (in)...dia (in)...hex (in)...preset (deg)
2269618 right 47” 0.940 1.410 44*
2269619 left 47” 0.940 1.410 44*
2269620 right 47” 0.960 1.410 44*
2269621 left 47” 0.960 1.410 44*
2269622 right 47” 0.980 1.410 44*
2269623 left 47” 0.980 1.410 44*

65?-73 Imperial Y-body
PN............side....length (in)...dia (in)...hex (in)...preset (deg)
2535512 right 50” 1.020 1.410 44*
2535513 left 50” 1.020 1.410 44*
2535516 right 50” 1.060 1.410 42*
2535517 left 50” 1.060 1.410 42*

B/E-body
PN............side....length (in)...dia (in)...hex (in)...preset (deg)
1857774 right 41” 0.860 1.250 30*
1857775 left 41” 0.860 1.250 30*
1857776 right 41” 0.880 1.250 30*
1857777 left 41” 0.880 1.250 30*
1857778 right 41” 0.900 1.250 30*
1857779 left 41” 0.900 1.250 30*
1857780 right 41” 0.920 1.250 30*
1857781 left 41” 0.920 1.250 30*

A-body
PN............side....length (in)...dia (in)...hex (in)...preset (deg)
2535888 right 35.8” 0.830 1.250 30*
2535889 left 35.8” 0.830 1.250 30*
2535890 right 35.8” 0.850 1.250 30*
2535891 left 35.8” 0.850 1.250 30*
2535892 right 35.8” 0.870 1.250 30*
2535893 left 35.8” 0.870 1.250 30*
2535894? right 35.8” 0.890 1.250 30*?
2535895? left 35.8” 0.890 1.250 30*?

"

NOTE: CORRECTED THE 65-73 PLYMOUTH BARS PER INFO I FOUND IN GG'S WHITE BOOKS. AGAIN, MORE TO FOLLOW.

Clair

[ Edited Sun Feb 25 2007, 10:13PM ]

NFURY8

Thu Jan 11 2007, 03:54PM

Super Mopar Dude

Location: Missouri
posts 3932

Thanks guys! I will rework the tech article with all the collected info.

Mike66Chryslers

Thu Jan 11 2007, 07:59PM

[ 426 Hemi CrossRam ]

Registered Member #561
Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 05:03PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
posts 1394

Clair, your info for 74-78 C's doesn't show the 1.02 and 1.06 (47" long) bars. I measured the T-bars on a car from that era (because I was looking for a set of 1.06 bars) and they were definitely 1.02". I cleaned a spot with a methanol-soaked rag and used my calipers for accuracy.

Save the whales.... collect the whole set!

Moderators: NFURY8

Go to page -1-2-3 Next

C-Body DryDock