Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 05:03PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2919
I wanted to test-fit my Schumacher headers before I sent them off for ceramic coating. Header fitment is always a popular topic, so I thought I'd share. These are going on the 451 stroker (400 block, E-heads) in my 66 Windsor 2dht.
First the passenger side. Tons of room on this side to drop the header down from above. For test-fitting, I didn't even need to remove the headpipe that connected to the HP cast iron manifold that this will be replacing. There is also lots of sparkplug clearance for the angled plugs on the Edelbrock heads.
Being block-hugger style headers, the Schumachers come out on the other side of the T-bars versus cast iron manifolds. The new headpipes will need to pass under the T-bars, which will limit ground clearance.
Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 05:03PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2919
Now for the driver's side. Not so easy on this side. I had to remove the old headpipe for sure. The instructions on Schumacher's website say to remove the starter and steering column to make room and work the header up from below.
I removed the starter but not the steering column. Instead I removed the bellcrank for the kickdown linkage then unscrewed the pin for the bellcrank from the side of the transmission housing. This gave me just enough room.
I also bought a mini starter to make sure that wouldn't be a problem, although I think Schumacher claims that their headers won't trap a fullsize starter.
The tightest sparkplug is #5, but there's still enough room for me to easily fit my index finger between it and the adjacent pipe. No problem retaining the original dipstick tube.
Looks like I'll have to do some surgery on my trans cooler lines to reroute them out of the way. I also replaced the kickdown linkage bellcrank for these pics because I was checking clearance. Looks okay.
This is looking up from below. The steering box is at the bottom of the pic. The header hits a boss on the block between cylinders 3 and 5. I'll have to do a little grinding on that before I install the headers for real.
Joined: Sat Sep 23 2006, 04:30AM
Location: Sharpsburg, GA
Posts: 924
Those look really good. Make sure the engine is broken in and tuned well before you install the ceramic ones. An engine with the timing way off will make enough heat to destroy the coating right away.
Joined: Mon Nov 09 2009, 07:40PM
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 220
i have these on my car (413) the only issue i had if the collecter flange on the passenger side hit the torsion bar. I ground a notch in the flange and it was good to go. kinda thing the small tube diameter is holding my car back...
Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 05:03PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2919
@67dodgeboat: These are the first headers I've ever installed, but I would be surprised if the TTIs are much easier to install, if at all. From what I've read (mostly here on the Dock) Schumachers, TTIs and Hedman "shorties" are the most common to install on a C-body because they're the easiest. (I actually bought these ones used from another Docker who previously had them installed in another slab-sided C.) With other types of headers, I've heard horror stories about people having to remove a torsion bar, unbolt the engine mounts and lift it up, pound on the header tubes with a hammer to clear things, fuss around with the starter because the header "captures" it, etc.
To my knowledge, all 3 of these have good clearance for the angled plugs on E-heads but all are "block hugger" style so the collector comes out on the wrong side of the torsion bars. All 3 also will not interfere with the starter if you switch to a mini starter.
Hedmans are the shortest, and I think they have a thinner flange to the cylinder head, but are considerably cheaper than the other two. Another Docker posted mock-up picks of Hedmans on E-heads a couple years ago. Member "Fury Fan" did a thread on the Hedman shorties. Here's a link: http://www.cbodydrydock.com/forum_viewtopic.php?6.22001
TTIs are much longer than the Schumachers; if you check pics on TTIs website, the collector ends past the back of the trans pan about where the trans mount is. That will be why Schumachers are one-size-fits-all while TTIs have headers specific to C-bodies and separate part numbers for B versus RB engines.
Even with TTIs, I recall someone on the Dock saying that the collector hit the floorpan or a T-bar, and TTIs advice was to put the car on a hoist, shove a 10-foot pipe into the collector and hang off it to bend the header.
11secondC wrote ... Good info, I'm suprised that they are hitting on the block boss like that...
NOTE: It is possible that on some engines an extra boss on the driver’s side (see photo) may interfere with the front intermediate pipe. Please check this before final assembly. Some minor grinding of this boss may be necessary to insure a good header to gasket seal. The boss is supposed to touch the header, but not interfere with the final sealing of the header to head.
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Tue Dec 15 2009, 10:09PM ]</span>
Joined: Sat Aug 19 2006, 05:03PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2919
The Schumachers definitely have better plug access than HP manifolds do, even with straight plugs. With HP manifolds, you can't even see #7 plug from above the car. It's less hassle to jack-up the car and change that plug from underneath than do it from above.
Don't anyone try using HP manifolds with E-heads. It's a huge bag of headaches, and one of the main reasons I'm switching to headers.
